"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
How do you know there wasn't a good reason to remove it? Are you sure it wasn't damaged, in need of refurbishment or being replaced with a bigger one?
But Erik is correct about one thing, they never remove MAX stops, they remove loads of Trimet bus stops.
Well, a MAX station is a lot more significant than a bus stop
"Are you sure it wasn't damaged, in need of refurbishment or being replaced with a bigger one?"Jason when a MAX station undergoes "refurbishment" as you claim, there's all sorts of news about it. TriMet spent how much money on just ONE MAX station "refurbishment" out in Gresham? With press releases, art installations, hoopla, etc. etc. etc.You tell me: If this is a refurbishment - where's the press release? Where's the art? Where's the bid?If you want to defend TriMet at all cost let's see the proof. Show me the press releases. Show me the meeting agenda that McFarlane will be out there to dedicate the new stop. Show it.I showed you the proof: The shelter's removed. Now you're bitching and moaning because I proved my point and you're more out to attack me rather than the facts - the shelter is missing. You called me a whiner - I'm proving my point. Stop your fucking bitching and if you want to tell me TriMet's doing work - let's see the proof.Put up or shut up, dude. And I've never seen a "refurbishment" require the removal of a shelter, considering the shelters are pre-built and delivered - in one piece - on a flatbed truck. And why would TriMet need to replace this shelter, as it wasn't damaged?
Jason:It is shallow and insulting to state that a MAX station is more significant than a bus stop.Erik H.is correct with his remarks. All customers, regardless of numbers or "capacity boardings", at any stop or station, deserve due customer service, amenities, and notice.You sound like you have drunk the picher of MAX Kool-aid pretty much dry with your remarks.
Anon:That sounds great, but the reality is that we can't afford to put every amenity at every stop. How do you propose we decide which stops get what amenities? The reasonable answer to this is:1) If we can get the amenities paid for by someone else (ex: the federal govt), then let's do it.2) Let's pick stops that serve the most people.Wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what TriMet is doing.
Max:Outside of Barbur and Tigard TC, passenger amenties are few and far between in the Barbur SB section.Want to remind you..nothing is for free, to include $$ from the Feds. A more viable option is funded communituy-based partnerships (Freds, Chase Bank) to build a passenger shelter with TM picking up the regular maintenance. Promotes good neighbor connections, ridership, etc..This particular bus stop is frequently used by seniors, women with children, all carrying grocery items.Was a temporary shelter sited, even considered?
It's been THREE DAYS and there's still no shelter.Again - these shelters are pre-fabricated and delivered in one piece on a flatbed truck. I've seen them. If one had to be replaced, TriMet would have its crew come out, lift the old shelter on the truck, lift the new shelter off and onto the pad, bolt it down, and it'd be done. It's a MAYBE four hour job.THREE DAYS...there's nothing being done here. I'm sure Jason has a perfectly logical explanation as to why the shelter was removed and not replaced considering that I've seen bus shelter replacements done and it's not done over the course of several days...heck, I've seen broken bus shelters (as in, broken glass) go several days before repair - and the entire shelter isn't lifted up - the glass is simply replaced.That sounds great, but the reality is that we can't afford to put every amenity at every stop. How do you propose we decide which stops get what amenities? There's a whole document called "Bus Stop Guidelines" on TriMet's website. Of course, the document even points out TriMet isn't following its own advice (i.e. 100 new bus shelters a year - at a minimum; TriMet is barely budgeting 30 - and most of those 30 are for replacements, not new stops.)But more importantly - even under that logic - not one MAX or WES stop should get any amenity because the ridership is zero. Why should a bus stop have to prove its ridership; while a MAX or WES stop gets it built? TriMet and Metro even agree that the transit experience isn't just the ride, it starts with the trip TO the transit stop, the transit stop itself, the transit ride, the transfer experience...and then the destination stop.How many riders are you going to attract with a bus stop sign? Not many. How many riders are you going to attract with a big platform, shelter, signs, schedules, maps, Transit Tracker signs, art, etc.? There's a reason TriMet goes to a HUGE expense to build this all out for MAX/WES - to attract ridership. And then it turns around and bitches that there isn't enough bus ridership to justify the expense?TriMet plays both sides of the "Chicken and Egg" argument. With MAX, the investment comes before the ridership. With bus, the ridership comes before the investment. Please explain why there is any difference as to why bus is treated differently than rail...it's all PUBLIC TRANSIT.
More whining from Erik -- I'm shocked.Erik you missed rule #1. The difference is that MAX stations are essentially paid for by someone else. TriMet has an open checkbook when it's not their money. I'm sure TriMet would put in as many bus shelters as you want if you or someone else was paying for it.Look at Milwaukie -- paid for by someone else, ta-da fancy schmantzy bus stops.
First of all, all I did was ask two simple questions. I didn't say you were whining and I wasn't moaning or bitching. Nor have I ever used swear words at you.where's the press release? Where's the art? Where's the bid?How complex is a bus shelter (not even a full stop) vs. an entire MAX station?And refurbishment is just one of the possibilities. Didn't you say there was construction at that stop? Maybe they needed access to the area and the shelter was in the way.If you really want to know what is up with the shelter, I know who I could ask. But I'm not sure I should help you when you have an attitude like that in response to two simple questions.
Oh, and the Civic Drive MAX station was not a "refurbishment". It was a complete replacement with the platforms being moved across the street.
Jason: My pushback to you was premised on the importance of responsibility and care to the customer..measurement of what customer service is provided is not, and should never be, based upon if it a MAX Station or a Bus Stop.Every customer counts. It's not a grand statement. If TriMet closes a bus stop and removes a shelter..communicate what/when/why and provide temporary shelter if at all feasible.Every customer, regardless of their mode of transportation, deserves consistent and attentive customer service.Those basic services were absent in this situation on Barbur Blvd. It is yet another TriMet mgt example of the BUS customer getting secondary service and consideration.Go check out the stop and walk to the next shelter. I did.
I don't think that posting a sign regarding the removal of the shelter would be unreasonable. In fact, I remember a sign on the shelter at NW Everett & 19th when it was going to be taken out for a while. In addition, I believe they did relocate the shelter on Weidler at the Lloyd Center when they were doing construction there.It's just that this happens to be a short-term removal, and I'm not sure there's space for it somewhere else without pouring another concrete pad.
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