WES Works!
Except...the nearest WES station is 1.5 miles away (in Tualatin, two miles to Tigard TC)...WES won't get you to any of the other games (Forest Grove, Hillsboro, Century High School in Beaverton, Newberg, McMinnville, or Grant High School in Portland, or Hayward Field in Eugene), or serve a number of these events occurring on a Saturday.
It's bad enough that TriMet doesn't even have a bus that serves Tigard High School (unless you count a bus stop 1/3rd of a mile away - which if applied equally to Neil McFarlane, would require him to use a bus stop on S.E. Powell or S.E. McLoughlin Boulevard and then walk to Center Street.)
funny!
ReplyDeleteThink about ads you've seen on TV or elsewhere. Did they usually have any relation to what they were placed in?
ReplyDeleteAnd how are you calculating that distance? Google Maps gives:
0.3 miles / 5 minute walk from the closest bus stops to Tigard High School
0.8 miles / 16 minutes from Center to the closest stop on Powell
And...
0.7 miles / 18 minutes from Neil's house to the closest bus stop on Line 12 (yes, Line 12) which I've read he rides.
Are you thinking that Line 76 should take time to deviate west on Durham to serve the school or what?
Think about ads you've seen on TV or elsewhere. Did they usually have any relation to what they were placed in?
ReplyDeleteThis is the SAME ad. Not two ads placed side by side. There is no border, and the High School banner extends across the entire page.
Are you thinking that Line 76 should take time to deviate west on Durham to serve the school or what?
Then explain the routings of these TriMet bus lines (past and present):
85s - serves the Leverman loop and then continues on Basin.
72 - serves two stops on a tail end of Channel Avenue
17 - crosses the St. Johns Bridge, only to cross back.
44 and 75 - extends to Pier Park just to turn around, instead of making a more logical loop in the St. Johns business area.
15 - goes all the way up Thurman to turn around.
57 (former) and 58 (current) - takes the Sylvan or (former) Washington Park exits off of the Sunset Highway
67 (former) - select routes deviate off of 158th to serve Cornell Oaks
46 - deviates off Cornell to serve Fairplex/Airport MAX station; continues east to serve Brockwood/Shute loop
76 - deviated off of historic route in order to serve Tualatin WES station, away from City Hall stop.
17 - extends across the Sauvie Island Bridge to serve a parking lot, just to return (and a parking lot that is not in TriMet's service district); when the 17 could - and should - end at Linnton (where there are at least two turn-arounds where the bus could safely pull off of 30 and layover.)
And the BEST example...deviating the 75 several blocks east on Columbia to serve a Native American school/social service center, just to U-turn back to its historic route.
So...Jason...yes, why shouldn't a route make an easy four block deviation to serve a high school? TriMet already does it in many locations. Why should Tigard HS be excluded from the level of service afforded many other locations - even some low density intra-Portland single-occupancy residential neighborhoods with just a couple riders? Your own argument does not hold up with TriMet's own SOP.
This is the SAME ad.
ReplyDeleteWhat publication was this in? And still doesn't mean it needs to be related.
In any case, do you think that the deviation would generate enough additional riders to make it worthwhile? As in to offset the inconvenience to all of the people who currently ride, and the added time/cost? And at all times of the day (remember, we're talking about non-school time events)?
Do you know of a concerted effort to try to get such a deviation? Some of the others (such as the 75 one) have been pushed for.
85s - serves the Leverman loop and then continues on Basin.
Farthest stop (ID 11949) is much farther from the regular route--over 0.6 miles away. Also cuts down walk by about 1/4th mile for others NW on Cutter. Plus, Line 85 is not comparable to Line 76 and the deviation doesn't have the same effects.
72 - serves two stops on a tail end of Channel Avenue
At the end of the route (so no through passengers), only done limited times and probably has (history of) high ridership.
17 - crosses the St. Johns Bridge, only to cross back.
Much longer deviation than your proposed one, serves much more passengers (in a much more transit-friendly environment)
44 and 75 - extends to Pier Park just to turn around, instead of making a more logical loop in the St. Johns business area.
Pier Park is at least 0.7 miles from the business area, so not comparable. Moreover, there's a good off-street layover and turn-around area there. Laying the buses in the business area would be problematic (need parking and restroom access; also see history of Troutdale layover). Is at the end of the route and probably has higher ridership, too.
15 - goes all the way up Thurman to turn around.
Huge elevation change, historic route, vocal riders and end of the route
57 (former) and 58 (current) - takes the Sylvan or (former) Washington Park exits off of the Sunset Highway
You're going to have to show me how you otherwise expect them to serve the area. Note that the 58 does not stop at the zoo.
67 (former) - select routes deviate off of 158th to serve Cornell Oaks
Doesn't count as it was discontinued; much, much longer than your high school deviation
46 - deviates off Cornell to serve Fairplex/Airport MAX station
Continuation of service to former route end, and vital transfer point. Note that the 48 does not make this deviation.
76 - deviated off of historic route in order to serve Tualatin WES station, away from City Hall stop.
Important transit connection, also serves mix of businesses and residential area (which can provide riders throughout the day). Also southbound bus stop is otherwise much farther than the high school is from transit. And still serves city hall, too.
17 - extends across the Sauvie Island Bridge to serve a parking lot
That parking lot happens to be a park & ride (or at least was) and there used to be a transit connection here. Plus, it's much farther from Linnton than Tigard HS is from the 76 stop and is at the end of the route.
deviating the 75 several blocks east on Columbia
Had good support and probably serves transit-dependent minorities
...
why shouldn't a route make an easy four block deviation to serve a high school?
ReplyDeleteWhy should it? Why is it so necessary, desirable and useful?
Moreover, what if they do the deviation? What about all the other places that will ask for one? Where does it end? Should people expect to have front-door service, unless there's a good reason, like high ridership?
some low density intra-Portland single-occupancy residential neighborhoods with just a couple riders
Which ones, exactly, get such a deviation like the one you are proposing for Tigard High School? None of the examples you mentioned seem to fit.
Lastly, are you sure that the play fields on the corner of Durham and 85th that are adjacent to the bus route aren't part of the school? If so, is it really TriMet's fault that the school building is located away from the intersection (which would be the transit-friendly location)?
One other thing: With the mentioned "connections to buses and MAX", one could take WES to Forest Grove, Grant, Hillsboro or Beaverton.
ReplyDeleteIn other words Jason you are justifying a whole list of examples I provided for a specific reason, but then you fail to justify why Tigard HS does not deserve such a deviation.
ReplyDeleteHere's a few more:
76/78 into Washington Square (instead of staying on Hall and Greenburg)
12 into Tigard TC (instead of staying on Main)
76 to Tualatin P&R.
You decry (probably only because I'm suggesting it, and for no other reason because apparently you seem to get a stick up your ass anytime I say something) one suggested deviation, and you fail to back it up with any rationale as to why it can't or shouldn't be done. Is a high school not a potential transit generator? (Especially since how Portland's Mayor trips over himself trying to justify free transit passes for...oh...HIGH SCHOOLERS!!!)
With the mentioned "connections to buses and MAX", one could take WES to Forest Grove, Grant, Hillsboro or Beaverton.
Geeze, under that argument, you could take WES to Lincoln City...you know, with the connection to Yamhill County Transit to Grand Ronde. Or to Tillamook, with the transfer to MAX, and the 52 to TCTD. Or to Seattle, or anywhere else. But you conveniently overlook that this single ad includes games for which WES cannot possibly be a transit option to...unless you travel on a Friday, transfer a half-dozen times, spend a few nights in a hotel...
for a specific reason
ReplyDeleteI gave often multiple reasons why the deviations were not the same as your proposed one and should not be compared, regardless of whether the individual ones are 100% good.
76/78 into Washington Square
Transit center access and major employment and shopping; much bigger destination than Tigard HS.
12 into Tigard TC
Are you saying the transit should not serve the transit center?
76 to Tualatin P&R
I don't get this one. Unless you think the buses should only stop on the other side of a pedestrian-hostile street.
any rationale as to why it can't or shouldn't be done.
I tried to give some:
-The school is not that far off the route or otherwise inaccessible from it.
-It would cost time and money
-Many people (every existing rider) would be inconvenienced in order to do it
-To provide service for occasional events (remember, this is not about providing service for the school day), every trip would have to do the deviation, even though many if not most trips would gain zero ridership
-There's little guarantee that the ridership would be worth it
-Transit often doesn't give front-door service and people are expected to walk a bit
-TriMet generally doesn't do equivalent deviations, at least unless there's a community push for them or they are net beneficial
Bottom line: Is it really that wrong to expect people to walk just about 3 blocks to get to their destination, especially when their destination is set back from the route?
What about all the other places that will ask for one? Where does it end? Should people expect to have front-door service, unless there's a good reason, like high ridership?
Given the time, money and inconvenience involved the question should be "why", not "why not".
Also, neither Grant nor the old Marshall HS have/had front door service. Depending on the route they wanted to take, Marshall students probably had to walk farther than Tigard ones would. And, to an extent, the Portland passes are in lieu of school bus service which, unlike Tigard, PPS does not provide.