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Well, for better or worse, the money for WES is being spent on WES and is not available for other things.
Also, what kind of ridership would these routes be expected to get? SMART's routes are not terribly productive: http://or-wilsonvilletransit.civicplus.com/276/Whats-Proposed---2X-Options (the 4 is the most comparable since it runs on Saturdays and doen't go to another city; the 6 runs rush hours only).
Lastly, if the money were available, wouldn't it be fairer to spread it across more than just one city?
"if the money were available, wouldn't it be fairer to spread it across more than just one city?"
So, Jason McHuffandPuff - let's say that the residents of the City of Tigard exercise their right under Article 1, Section 1 of the Oregon Constitution.
Why should the good residents of Tigard be forced to pay a tax that then leaves the city, and goes everywhere else?
And let's extend that argument further - since Tigard is currently a member of the TriMet service district, isn't it fair that Tigard receive the level of service for which it pays for? It's a known fact that Washington County, and specifically the cities of Tigard and Tualatin, pay far more in payroll tax into TriMet than they receive in service. How is that fair?
Of course you being a Portland resident, you are among those that love to bitch and whine about how the suburbs are so gawdawful bad and horrible, until the question comes up about the suburbs taking their money back and spending it in the neighborhoods where the money is raised - and then you, like Portland, cries foul and how Portland needs a Streetcar, Portland needs MAX, Portland needs money for every pet project under the sky...
So, Jason...how is TriMet fair? Who cares about SMART's bus service productivity, when Wilsonville has no problem raising the taxes locally AND spending the tax locally - they have drastically increased the amount of transit in their city, while paying far less in taxes than they did as a TriMet community. And you fail to admit the failure that WES is, in that it has YET to reach its first year ridership. Why are you such an ass-kisser to WES? Why do you defend WES so much - were you getting some kind of a kickback from Colorado Railcar or something?
The money being spent on WES **IS** available for other things, because guess where that money comes from? The TriMet General Fund. There is no dedicated WES fund. Look it up in the budget...oh, wait, you just spew whatever bullshit you want to, because when you read that I write something, you have nothing to do with your pathetic, meaningless life than to spew off shit to irritate me, without actually demonstrating that you have a single functioning brain cell.
With TriMet being a regional/state entity, I don't think it means Tigard citizens can alone write their own rules.
Why should the good residents of Tigard be forced to pay a tax that then leaves the city, and goes everywhere else?
Because many people use transit to leave Tigard or get to the city. Washington Square, for example, is in Tigard but Beaverton and Portland workers and shoppers go there. And residents don't pay TriMet's payroll tax.
How is that fair?
How transit friendly are those areas? How dense, mixed use? How's the pedestrian environment? What's the relative potential ridership?
how Portland needs a Streetcar
I'm not exactly sure I've said that Portland "needs" a streetcar. In any case, the city paid to build it, pays part of the operations costs (yet doesn't charge TriMet fare holders) and TriMet has lower service in the area (e.g. Line 17 in NW).
I would be fine if we instead stopped subsidizing/encouraging car use and low-density development so there would be less argument for streetcars.
no problem raising the taxes locally AND spending the tax locally
That's because Wilsonville has a relatively high level of payrolls to tax, and they don't give money to TriMet when people use TriMet buses on their way to/from Wilsonville. Businesses elsewhere must pick up that tab.
In addition, they don't have the legacy and other costs that TriMet has.
while paying far less in taxes than they did as a TriMet community
Not that much less--0.5% vs. about 0.7%.
Why are you such an ass-kisser to WES?
Isn't that name calling?
Why do you defend WES so much
As I have said before, I think the FRA should not obstruct WES-type operations, allowing it to me more comparable to MAX and much cheaper.
The money being spent on WES **IS** available for other things
How so, or do you think it's possible to cancel WES with no penalties or costs at all?
Well, for better or worse, the money for WES is being spent on WES and is not available for other things.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what kind of ridership would these routes be expected to get? SMART's routes are not terribly productive: http://or-wilsonvilletransit.civicplus.com/276/Whats-Proposed---2X-Options (the 4 is the most comparable since it runs on Saturdays and doen't go to another city; the 6 runs rush hours only).
Lastly, if the money were available, wouldn't it be fairer to spread it across more than just one city?
"if the money were available, wouldn't it be fairer to spread it across more than just one city?"
ReplyDeleteSo, Jason McHuffandPuff - let's say that the residents of the City of Tigard exercise their right under Article 1, Section 1 of the Oregon Constitution.
Why should the good residents of Tigard be forced to pay a tax that then leaves the city, and goes everywhere else?
And let's extend that argument further - since Tigard is currently a member of the TriMet service district, isn't it fair that Tigard receive the level of service for which it pays for? It's a known fact that Washington County, and specifically the cities of Tigard and Tualatin, pay far more in payroll tax into TriMet than they receive in service. How is that fair?
Of course you being a Portland resident, you are among those that love to bitch and whine about how the suburbs are so gawdawful bad and horrible, until the question comes up about the suburbs taking their money back and spending it in the neighborhoods where the money is raised - and then you, like Portland, cries foul and how Portland needs a Streetcar, Portland needs MAX, Portland needs money for every pet project under the sky...
So, Jason...how is TriMet fair? Who cares about SMART's bus service productivity, when Wilsonville has no problem raising the taxes locally AND spending the tax locally - they have drastically increased the amount of transit in their city, while paying far less in taxes than they did as a TriMet community. And you fail to admit the failure that WES is, in that it has YET to reach its first year ridership. Why are you such an ass-kisser to WES? Why do you defend WES so much - were you getting some kind of a kickback from Colorado Railcar or something?
The money being spent on WES **IS** available for other things, because guess where that money comes from? The TriMet General Fund. There is no dedicated WES fund. Look it up in the budget...oh, wait, you just spew whatever bullshit you want to, because when you read that I write something, you have nothing to do with your pathetic, meaningless life than to spew off shit to irritate me, without actually demonstrating that you have a single functioning brain cell.
Jason McHuffandPuff
ReplyDeleteI thought you didn't like name calling.
Article 1, Section 1 of the Oregon Constitution
With TriMet being a regional/state entity, I don't think it means Tigard citizens can alone write their own rules.
Why should the good residents of Tigard be forced to pay a tax that then leaves the city, and goes everywhere else?
Because many people use transit to leave Tigard or get to the city. Washington Square, for example, is in Tigard but Beaverton and Portland workers and shoppers go there. And residents don't pay TriMet's payroll tax.
How is that fair?
How transit friendly are those areas? How dense, mixed use? How's the pedestrian environment? What's the relative potential ridership?
how Portland needs a Streetcar
I'm not exactly sure I've said that Portland "needs" a streetcar. In any case, the city paid to build it, pays part of the operations costs (yet doesn't charge TriMet fare holders) and TriMet has lower service in the area (e.g. Line 17 in NW).
I would be fine if we instead stopped subsidizing/encouraging car use and low-density development so there would be less argument for streetcars.
no problem raising the taxes locally AND spending the tax locally
That's because Wilsonville has a relatively high level of payrolls to tax, and they don't give money to TriMet when people use TriMet buses on their way to/from Wilsonville. Businesses elsewhere must pick up that tab.
In addition, they don't have the legacy and other costs that TriMet has.
while paying far less in taxes than they did as a TriMet community
Not that much less--0.5% vs. about 0.7%.
Why are you such an ass-kisser to WES?
Isn't that name calling?
Why do you defend WES so much
As I have said before, I think the FRA should not obstruct WES-type operations, allowing it to me more comparable to MAX and much cheaper.
The money being spent on WES **IS** available for other things
How so, or do you think it's possible to cancel WES with no penalties or costs at all?