Thursday, February 28, 2013

Erik Halstead talks about the terrible line 94!

The TriMet pinheads cut bus service in favor of MAX service and the only victims are the riders.


Al M said...


Max said...

Erik, I'm surprised that you don't know why the 12 was split up -- isn't this your baby? It wasn't just money, it was also to increase its ability to stick to schedule (which is something you also complained about in your speech).

The longer the route, the harder it is to stick to schedule.

source another source

12-Barbur/Sandy Blvd
To help buses run closer to schedule and to improve efficiency, Line 12 is being considered for a change so that it would run between Tigard Transit Center and Parkrose/Sumner Transit Center. In Southwest, a new local line from Sherwood would connect at Tigard. In East Portland, a new local line from Gresham would connect at Parkrose.

Al M said...

Thats a bogus argument Max, schedules can be revised.

Steve Fung said...

Way to go Erik!

Max said...

How do you rearrange a schedule to keep a long route like the 12 on-time?

The way you do that is you shorten the route, and use recovery time at the end of the line -- which is what all other TriMet routes do.

As you know, if you get to be too late, you cannot recover. That's more likely to happen on a long route.

Al M said...

Sorry Max but I disagree with you.

Running time can be appropriately adjusted, the scheduling dept refuses to comply.

Additionally they can have layovers throughout the route, like 5 mins at Barbur Blvd, Downtown etc, and appropriate recovery time at end of line, so your argument is wrong.

The new set up has created huge hardships for riders who don't make the connection then end up wasting time after missing the connecting bus

Max said...

Traffic / delays vary day by day, trip by trip. The longer the run, the higher the chance you're going to break the schedule.

If you add layovers throughout the route then that's essentially like breaking it up.

Yes - breaking it up does make delays for some people, but there there are the majority of people who don't live in Sherwood who get to benefit from a 12 that isn't bunched. That's the theory, anyway!

Jason McHuff said...

Also, what about getting rid of the Gresham-Sherwood trips that meant no breaks for operators for 2 1/2+ hours?

It's, I think, hard to have a break if you've got a bunch of people on your bus that want to continue on.

Jason McHuff said...

Issues with what he said:

-Portland Streetcar is not "fully funded" in the sense that TriMet has lowered the level of funding given to Streetcar just like every other department has been cut. As a result, Streetcar was not able to hire the operators or provide the service it wanted to.

-TriMet also got a payroll tax rate increase to help pay for the increased obligations.

-TriMet can't just shut down WES given contracts with the Federal government and the railroad.

-WES runs only every 30 minutes and only during rush hours, a pretty basic level of service and much less frequent than Line 94.

-Line 94 isn't "cost effective" when pretty much every trip has to deadhead all the way to/from Sherwood.

-Line 94 has not "been proven for decades". It's only been around since (I think) 2001.

-Also, he ignores issues (outside of TriMet's direct control) that discourage ridership like Tigard's street maintenance subsidy.

Erik H. said...

1. TriMet's official statement about breaking up the 12 bus was for "cost savings" not schedule adherence. I've made a comment many times that TriMet should break the Barbur (south of downtown) and Sandy (north of downtown) segments into two different routes. In fact, TriMet DID do this to the 9 Powell/Broadway, with the explicit reason of enhancing the 9-Powell performance. But for the 12 it was all about cost savings, and thus the absolutely idiotic splitting it into three disjointed routes. (Yes, Max, I do know what I'm talking about, but once again you clearly show that you are incapable of facts - just personal attacks because you have nothing better to do with your sad, pathetic life but attack me.)

2. Portland Streetcar IS fully funded Jason. It is absolutely far better funded than any bus line, has far better service than most bus lines, has an entire dedicated staff that does nothing BUT Streetcar (which bus line has its own 100% dedicated employees - heck, which bus line has its own dedicated Director?)

2. TriMet CAN shut down WES. Are there reprecussions? Sure. As for the Portland & Western Railroad they originally were a full supporter of WES but since have changed their tune - they would be happy to get rid of WES operations.

3. So what if WES runs every 30 minutes - it still has pathetic ridership, extremely high operating costs - the 94 bus, despite running (per the schedule as low as every 6 minutes) does so at a much lower operating cost and greater ridership.

4. The 94, even with the stupid deadhead (but, you - Jason McHuff - also criticized my suggestion to have overnight layover locations closer to where buses terminate, so you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing with Erik rather than focusing on facts) is still far more cost effective than the WES, despite the fact WES's deadhead is a mere 500 feet or so. 94's cost per boarding ride - around $3, EVEN with the deadhead.

5. The 12 has been around for decades (even in its prior reincarnations with different route numbers). The 94 was preceded by the 95. The ROUTE has been around for decades. (But thanks for nitpicking to suit your personal attack versus the facts.)

6. What does this have to do with TriMet? How does a street maintenance fee on Tigard residents' water bills discourage ridership? TriMet doesn't even have to pay this fee; nor do TriMet riders in Tigard have to pay an additional fee to ride the bus in Tigard, so you're REALLY grasping at very short straws here Jason - and you aren't making any sense.

Max said...

1. TriMet's official statement about breaking up the 12 bus was for "cost savings" not schedule adherence.

Go ahead and provide a link to this "official statement," because when I google this, all I get are these two links from TriMet's website which say it was for both schedule adherence and cost savings. link one link two.

"Once again you clearly show that you are incapable of facts

Sources cited by me: 2.
Sources cited by you: 0.

Sounds like you're the person with the "fact" problem.

Jason McHuff said...

-Regarding splitting the line downtown, TriMet was able to do that with Line 9 because they were able to attach the Broadway half to Line 17, replacing the half of that route which was eliminated.

To split up Line 12 without connecting it to a different route would add costs since each half would have to run the length of downtown/PSU, duplicating each other.

-I'm not seeing Max's "personal attack"

-"sad, pathetic life": Isn't that a personal attack?

-How much of the "dedicated streetcar support" exists because of funding from the City of Portland? If it wasn't for the city, I'd bet good money that the streetcar wouldn't exist.

And yes, TriMet has decreased the percentage of funding given to Streetcar. See e.g.

-Maybe Tigard should consider sponsoring some shuttle route.

-Even if Portland & Western is willing to give up the WES contract, what about the Federal government and others that have funded the construction? If you gave me money to buy something expensive and I didn't use it, wouldn't you want the money back?

-Line 94 is different than what Line 95 was. And you specifically said "Line 94", not Line 12 or e.g. "Pacific Hwy express service"

-Tigard residents and businesses have to pay the street fee regardless of how much they actually drive. Fees like that one make driving look cheaper and can result in people not willing to consider taking transit.