Another amazing video by LJ Productions.
September 16th, 2012. Supervisor part was at Gresham Transit Center. I got kicked off at Burnside and Hogan in Gresham. Happened around 5:30pm.
Then the driver takes my picture without my permission! Huge HR violation!
47 comments:
Looks like some Trimet drivers don't like you much Lane. However, throwing him off for what? Why did you get thrown off?
Filming out the window.
Ya it looks like Lane got the shaft this time. The word is out on you Lane.
I'm curious, why would the driver get in trouble get in trouble for taking his picture? AKA how is it any different than Lane recording him
I've got mixed feelings about this.
First of all I think Lane SHOULD NOT have been kicked off the bus, that was wrong.
The driver took a picture of LANE without Lane's permission.
IF I HAD DONE THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED SO I HOPE LANE PRESSES THAT OFFENSE
I have always maintained TRIMET TRANSIT DISTRICT DISCRIMINATES-it protects the people 'they' like while looking for any little offense for the people 'they' don't like. (especially operators who become publicly politically active in Trimet issues)
I know people who have been discriminated against that have been denied jobs at this corrupt rotten district because the people in charge of the hiring don't 'like' that person.
We can argue about Lane day and night if we want but I have been fascinated by his pushing on these operators and finding their stress level and how they are reacting fascinating.
And from where I sit Trimet operators are failing.
Sorry I can't stand behind operators who break rules, and throw off passengers they don't like.
I know the HR rules inside and out.
The pubic can shoot pictures of operators but operators cannot shoot pictures of riders WITHOUT THEIR ""EXPRESS PERMISSION"
The operator violated that rule, a rule that would have ended my employment with that district with extreme prejudice.
Let see what they do in this case.
(Trimet administrators are a bunch of liars, I also know that first hand)
He didn't get kicked off! what i understand from watching this video is that the driver didn't like Lane messing around with the video camera and filming (and the driver handled it very well) other passengers/ himself and asked Lane to stop. Lane decided to argue and then ask for the back door to be opened and he got off. Then Lane started to get in the driver's face and like any normal person, the driver didn't like it.
Lane, i've said it before and i'll say it again, these operators don't need any more stress or annoyance than they get from just being a bus driver in general. Don't harass them. Don't make enemies of them. That operator, in particular, appeared to simply try to avoid a passenger incident where the person freaked because they saw the video camera recording. That was smart. Just stop recording if they ask. Respect them. They deserve it.
Don't ignore them. You'll just get a lot of hatred if you continue like you have been. No one wants that.
Your videos are great, but slow down and put everything into perspective for a moment. try to see things from the operator's perspective.
I'm just trying to help.
I heard him throw him off...
I'm on lane's side on this one!
i thought i heard otherwise....at about 1:38 in the video you can here Lane say "you want me off? Open the back door." That doesn't sound like he was 'kicked off' as he claims to me.
And then Lane turns around and runs over to the front door and starts bugging the operator.
I like these videos, but he needs to be respectful to the operators as well. they're people too.
I won't take sides. But there is absolutely no need to go and broadcast false information demonizing this operator. He was just trying to do what he thought was right and conducted himself very well in my eyes until about when Lane turned the camera on.
Hmmmm...Well Adri, I respect your opinion, but this time YOUR WRONG!
hehe...
Ya Lane pushed his buttons,I'd be lying if I said I didn't find it fascinating!
I love that about Lane Jensen, he can really push peoples buttons!
hahahahaaa!
Good one Lane
Go get them Lane!
As i respect your opinion, but i have taken my stand.
It's not alright to go out and give these operators complete disrespect as he displays it. Frankly, i'm surprised you don't see it that way, Al.
If Lane continues like this, things will get worse. I just don't want to see that happen, for his sake and the operators.
"Hmmmm...Well Adri, I respect your opinion, but this time YOUR WRONG!
hehe..."
Gotta correct you, Al.
Opinions in themselves aren't wrong. Facts can be, and actions can be. Opinions can't. It's a point of view.
Just saying. ;)
I'm just messing around. As I said, I have mixed feelings about this.
I have the same question now that I always had with operators-what the hell are you so scared of?
The management.
Al, I do have mixed feelings over some of this as well.
However, with these operators it seems like they're afraid of trimet. They want to keep their jobs and they're afraid that if the video camera is out, trimet might find something that they could use to give the operator trouble. That's what it looks like to me. It makes sense, but some operators ARE too paranoid. Just not this one. What it looks like to me is that he was only trying to keep the bus free from upset passengers because of the video camera. And hell, we both know if trimet wants someone gone they will be gone. so being afraid of trimet for your job if you really need it is understandable.
Well Adri, when your right your right.....
Your point is well taken
Point or no point Al and Adri, there are rules and these operators and supervisors change it at will whenever they want to suit them.
I suppose, but I don't easily trust the guy editing the video if he has a sort of bias (justified or not).
so, Lane. You're telling me that these guys essentially have to act perfectly or something?
No one follows every rule and law out there--it just doesn't happen.
And i agree there with Cameron.
Here is what I saw from the video... I saw a driver who handled the situation very well. It does not come across as the driver kicking Mr.Jensen off of the bus, but rather a voluntary exit.
I know that most drivers do not want to be taped, as I can remember the unions fighting the idea of cameras being centered on the operators. Not saying anybody has anything to hide, but the union that represents the drivers fought it, and won.
Now comes the legal end of it. Mr.Jensen is at a very large risk of civil action. Oregon law is not like most other states, and it's about the audio, not the video or pictures. In Oregon, you are allowed to tape audio of a conversation that you are personally involved in, without advising the other party. But! You are not allowed to record 2 or more parties' conversation without consent, not just a tag advising you are filming. You must have consent to record their conversation. So if a couple riders are talking, and lane catches it and posts it online, they can file a suit against him. This law does not apply to things like trimet radio communications and whatnot. So there is a risk here, and the audio recording part is what can burn you.
On more of a personal note, I think this is sickening. This is not any different than a guy who sticks a camera in a cops face, and starts rattling off laws and rules, making the officer have t focus on the person with the camera, and not the task they are supposed to be doing.
You can do what you are doing without being an ass about it. Customers are bound to start calling in and complaining about the actions of Mr.Jensen, as they are being inconvenienced and made uncomfortable by this. Then trimet will have a legitimate reason to exclude Mr.Jensen from their service, and it appears that Mr.Jensen depends on trimet as his primary mode of transport.
So that is my two cents, and I hope you look up the laws, and get a better understanding. The videos posted also show that trimet has tried to accommodate Mr.Jensen when they failed him, and have even given him a free month's pass. So in closing I will say, "don't bite the hand that feeds you." If you don't have a car, cab fare gets expensive. They are building a case, and one day, they will have enough to ban you. Can you afford that right now?
Lane you are such an ass. Complain all you like about the bus system, but this poor guy is just trying to do his job. Based on your other videos you don't just shoot scenery outside the bus. You shoot other passengers on the bus, bus drivers, and the buses themselves. More than likely you are getting a reputation as "That pain in the ass passenger Lane Jensen." You feel like you were somehow wronged and yet it seems like you initiated the conflict by getting in the drivers face and complaining about his driving. Now I know you probably don't have much experience being employed seeing as your last round of employment was so short lived. But surely you've encountered people who just have to be confrontational and make your job difficult. So way to show some empathy and not make this guys day more difficult.
I'd also like to point out that the conversation for the first 1:07 of your video seems to end with you agreeing to turn off the camera and be a good little boy. Then the video cuts to the camera now being removed from what I assume is your bag, and you throwing regulations at the driver that I couldn't seem to find on the Trimet website. Seems to me like you decided to be annoying and pull your camera out again after being nicely asked to put it away.
Regarding privacy laws, you are touching a topic near to my heart!
Having been through all of this myself it comes down to the EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY. There is absolutely no expectation of privacy on a public bus, and all passengers are being video taped at all times by TRIMET, thereby proving there is no expectation of privacy when riding a public bus.
Invasion of personal privacy
(1) Except as provided in ORS 163.702 (Exceptions to ORS 163.700), a person commits the crime of invasion of personal privacy if:
(a)(A) The person knowingly makes or records a photograph, motion picture, videotape or other visual recording of another person in a state of nudity without the consent of the person being recorded; and
(B) At the time the visual recording is made or recorded the person being recorded is in a place and circumstances where the person has a reasonable expectation of personal privacy;
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/163.700
Regarding audio, private meetings require all participants be informed they are being taped.
Being in a public space there is no way to have a 'private conversation' . The audio is a slightly more complex issue than the video. He's been wearing a tag that says "recording in process' which should cover all the legalities anyway.
That is a terrible excuse. Trimet is already recording them so it is okay for him to record them and put the videos up on youtube. I don't mind being recorded by security cameras, but I would be irate if my picture showed up on someone's youtube post. By the time you see this tag saying "recording in process" your image has already been recorded. I don't want to worry going into a public place that some creep was video taping me.
When you are in a public place you really have no idea who is taping you.
Many recording devices are not easily visible.
If you tell someone to stop recording you the general expectation is that the recording would stop.
Public employees are another matter.
It's a very complex issue.
You say its OK for Trimet to tape you because they are not 'creepy' like you say Lane is.
Obviously a value judgement. The law is supposed to be blind and provide equal protection.
Lane is protected under the same law that Trimet is protected under.
I think you missed my statement. Trimet has security videos, which aren't going to wind up on youtube. That is the point plain and simple. Most public buses do have security cameras it is a popular thing for the businesses now a days for protection for the drivers and their property. I can choose not to take a bus if I do not want to be recorded on the "security camera". However, if I do board that bus I do expect only Trimet to be recording on that bus.
You stated "If you tell someone to stop recording you the general expectation is that the recording would stop." When Lane was asked to stop he did not. Isn't that a total lack of respect for another human being.
When Lane was asked to stop he did not. Isn't that a total lack of respect for another human being.
I would not follow his procedure
Al, you are looking at the wrong law. Again, I will explain that it is not about recording video. Trimet does not record audio on their buses, trains or property. You can shoot all of the video and pictures you want in public under the law you quoted. That is now the law I am talking about.
165.540 Obtaining contents of communications:
Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained.
The courts have ruled making it clear that "specifically informed" legally means "received consent." So a small tag around your neck is not specifically informing everybody that they may be being recorded.
I don't care if you believe what I'm saying or not. You can argue it until you are blue in the face. It will in no way effect me, so have fun! It's my input, take it how you want. But be advised, Mr.Jensen's action could land him with a civil or criminal case should somebody choose to proceed.
I deal with this law on a regular basis, and am very familiar with it. My last bit of advice would be to speak to a lawyer who specializes in this type of law.
I'm aware the audio law is a little more complicated.
But two people talking in front of a group of people, I really wonder if it applies.
When I was involved with this sort of thing the legal advice I got said all of this came down to expectation of privacy.
Most transit districts record sound as well as audio, and I encouraged Trimet to record sound as well as audio as visual recording of incidents only gives 1/2 the true story.
If you inform someone that you are recording then your ok no matter what.
There are literally thousands of videos posted on you tube and around the net that contain video along with audio of things happening on public transit.
I have never heard of one case involving invasion of personal privacy, anywhere in the USA actually not only Oregon.
Are you blue in the face yet?
This is an Oregon law. Not a national law. This is not a right to privacy issue. A sign stating "I'm filming" the size of a playing card is not a way of explaining what you are doing. When you walk into a business who tapes audio in Oregon, they will have conspicuous signs stating such, and that they are used for security purposes. "I'm filming" says nothing of the sort. Nobody knows what the tape is being used for, and are likely to not see a small tag around his neck. Many riders wear their passes there, and it's not a riders responsibility to check every other rider's attire to be advised if they are being taped.
So don't straw-man this conversation by stating there are videos all over showing what he is doing. Again, this is an OREGON specific law, it has been challenged, and upheld. Just because people do it and have not been pressed on it, does not mean it's legal. It's only going to take one person... It has ZERO to do with the expected right to privacy you quote.
Again, argue it all you want. There is a reason real videographers have people sign a release. The understand the liability at stake. So hear me now believe me later. This is, by definition of Oregon law, a crime.
Well I'd be shocked to see a DISTRICT ATTORNEY actually prosecute a case involving recording on public transit.
BTW-Oregon has much more lenient rules than many other states about this sort of thing.
I suggest you scroll through BOJACK.ORG for some excellent coverage of how this law applies to police in Oregon.
I read at Bojack about a FEDERAL RULING that sided for the person doing the recording in a case that was not even in the public domain.
I guess the only way we will get to the truth is if DISTRICT ATTORNEY takes a case for prosecution.
John Holmes-are you an attorney?
Al M writes "IF I HAD DONE THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED SO I HOPE LANE PRESSES THAT OFFENSE "
So you're saying you really want this bus driver fired because you feel like you got treated differently than he might be treated by TriMet management.
BTW Al, were you ever fired by TriMet? You recorded co-workers conversations without their consent and posted it online. You should have been fired for that, but TriMet never fired you...you retired. The facts again aren't with ya, Al...you were given a lot more leeway at TriMet than you would get at many other employers.
Of course I don't want the driver fired!
And no I was not fired but was working under threat and getting false "secret rider" reports so I left.
I left before I wanted to, but I was very unhappy with the working environment.
All of this happened after Mcfarlane took over. I was given lots of leeway before Mcfarlane took over, but it all changed when he took over.
What ever I did at Trimet did no damage to anyone.
I want the truth ..I want transparency. I do not work under threat and will not accept a job under those conditions.
I never violated any laws, the only thing that was hurt was the pride of some people.
Lane has caused no damage, this is yet another TEMPEST IN A TEAPOT and the whole craziness of this has been totally created by the silly Trimet operators who if they had just been nice about things or just plain ignored him, there would be no controversy.
I went through a very similar experience . My blog became popular because so many people tried to stop me.
The same thing is happening to lane.
His post about getting kicked off the 20 has over 600 views now.
If the driver had just ignored him it would have zero.
Who's fault is it?
Right. Because I'm supposed to say "okay, I buy it" to an argument that ends with "fuck you, Lane!" look, I don't 100% agree/sympathize with him but let's at least pretend you have some balance and intelligence.
Al,
That's great your blog got over 600 views. However, I do not think the kind of attention you are getting is the right attention. It makes you look like a bad guy as well. Originally, I am sure this was a way to stick it to the man, but with having someone like Lane post on your site it only looks bad on you. Of course it looks bad on Lane too, but he doesn't have a reputation to consider or friends in the industry. This blog and all of of Lane's blogs makes you look like a terrible man that promotes antagonistic and bad behavior. He jeopardizes your blog, the drivers, and passengers and everyone's safety and rights. There is no respect for someone that promotes this. If you want to bring attention to Trimet for things they have done then do it legitimately and honestly.
Jeanne does have a good point there, Al. I think i understand why you stand up for these videos and continue posting these videos, but this might end up out of control soon. Lane has just taken it too far in the wrong direction. Don't make it end up hurting you too
And Adri-
you've known me personally for a fairly long time.
And you have seen me take some VERY UNPOPULAR stands on subjects that you are keenly aware about.
Don't expect me to cave into the court of public opinion, forget it.
Oh i know, al. I didn't think for a minute you would change anything.
Nothing is going to happen to that driver.
This is Trimet remember? You can kick moms and baby's off buses and still keep your job there, so stop worrying that anybody is going to get "fired" because that will never happen and will never even be considered.
I'd be surprised if the drivers in any of Lane's video ever hear from anybody about anything from Trimet management.
All that occurred is several bus drivers made fools of themselves on camera.
They did it, NOT LANE, don't blame Lane for other peoples behavior.
They don't know the rules.
Hell some of these assholes driving buses for Trimet can't even figure out how to punch a day ticket correctly does anybody actually expect them to know the rules about video taping on Trimet?
FUCK NO!
THE SUPERVISORS AND DISPATCHERS DON'T EVEN KNOW THE RULES!
EVERYBODY DOES WHAT THEY WANT AT TRIMET!
THERE IS NO MANAGEMENT-LET ME REPEAT THAT-THERE IS NO MANAGEMENT!
Wow Al you have got to be kidding me. So let me get this straight "Due to excessive whining and nasty comments all comments will be moderated" So you are for protecting the free speech of your friends but everyone else need to be oppressed. I do not believe I have read any personal attacks towards you or your friends, on the other hand "Trimet administrators are a bunch of liars, I also know that first hand" "Six hundred views on the blog asshole" "For all you assholes out there that hate me or Lane or whatever.GO FUCK YOURSELVES" " PARANOID BUNCH OF BUS DRIVERS" It seems you do an awful lot of attacking and allowing misleading information and down right false info onto your site. So you need to decide I guess, are you put on your big boy pants and let people have the opportunity to discuss issues together or are you going to continue to whine and complain while blocking everyone but those who agree with you?????
Cris
What FALSE information is on my site BTW?
I will not defend bus operators who act like idiots, sorry.
I believe in union, but I don't believe in stupidity.
I stick to my guns here, LANE DID NOTHING WRONG, its the operators response to Lane that was the problem.
I'm not going to go on debating this video, over and over and over.
He made it, I like it, he's a contributing member of my blog, he is having issues with Trimet and Trimet bus drivers, and he is entitled to post his stuff here.
He is doing what I used to do, just shining some light at things that are usually covered up.
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